Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Zahara Oubre: It would be hugely beneficial for the operator to be able to, at any given point of time, be able to look at their current operational risk level and also make informed safety based decisions for their operations.
[00:00:18] Intro: Welcome to Hangar X Studios where former fighter pilot and host John Ramstead takes us on a journey across aerospace as it enters an historic period of innovation and transformation.
Our guests include aviation experts, pilots, financiers, military leaders, and innovators of all types.
Buckle up for another episode of Hangar X.
[00:00:48] John Ramstead: Hey, welcome to the Hangar X Studio podcast. We're live at verticon and we're excited to get to interview some incredible people, some innovators, some disruptors, and people bringing new capabilities and technologies into not only vertical aviation, but powered lift. And with that, we have Zahara Oubreyte with us. So, Zahara, thank you for being here.
[00:01:09] Zahara Oubre: Thank you for inviting me.
[00:01:10] John Ramstead: Yes. And you're with MBA Aero, so tell us a little bit about what you're doing at MBA Aero and yourself.
[00:01:16] Zahara Oubre: So I'm Director of Aviation safety programs at MBA Aviation. We're an aviation consulting company with over 30 years of experience in aviation consulting. We've done, we've been doing safety assurance audits for years for various aviation companies, including oil and gas companies. We have been an IATA IOSA audit organization for over 20 years. We are a bars audit company as well for the Flight Safety Foundation. So we have over 30 years of aviation safety experience.
[00:01:51] John Ramstead: That is a lot. Now, what is the typical size of the clients you guys work with? What's the size of their aviation department?
[00:01:56] Zahara Oubre: So it could be anywhere with operators with two aircraft to one, actually one aircraft to 25 or even 50 plus. So it varies in ranges. Because the aviation consulting work that we do is not just safety assurance. We also do asset management, aircraft valuations, forecast and modeling. So there's a wide range of services that we provide to the aviation industry. And so there's no sort of limit to the size and scale of the operator.
[00:02:27] John Ramstead: So this could be from flight schools to charter operators to a company's own aviation department.
[00:02:32] Zahara Oubre: Correct? Correct. Okay, so that's the range of sort of services that MBA Aviation provides. Jumpseat, sms, on the other hand, that's an SMS solution that we have for air operators. Again, of any size and complexity.
[00:02:46] John Ramstead: Yeah, and that's how we met, because I was reading about jumpseat sms, which stands for sms, a safety management system.
[00:02:51] Zahara Oubre: Right, Right.
[00:02:53] John Ramstead: So let's talk a little bit about jump seat sms because, you know, we've had some other guests on and we're just Talking about, you know, safety and there's been a lot of, you know, some mishaps already this year. We're safety is really, it really comes down to a level of proficiency, a mindset, a standardization. I was a safety officer in the Navy. I understand how important this is because you know that that world of flying mistakes and mishaps, either where it's from a maintainer leaving a tool in there, pilot making a wrong decision or taking the wrong action in an emergency procedure, you know, in aviation it has life and death consequences.
[00:03:27] Zahara Oubre: Absolutely.
[00:03:28] John Ramstead: So tell us a little bit about jumpseat SMS and why it's something you guys brought on at mba.
[00:03:33] Zahara Oubre: So to be honest, so as I said before, we have over 20 years of experience with SMS. With my, I myself as well, we have. I've been working with SMS across the globe in the Middle East, Asia, Australia.
And when the mandate came out, the FAA mandate came out for SMS for 135 operators.
[00:03:53] John Ramstead: When did that mandate come out?
[00:03:54] Zahara Oubre: So the mandate came out last year and it's going to. And so 135 operators are mandated to have an SMS by May 28, 2027. But when they first released the NPRM a couple of years ago, we were reading through the comments and we were finding a lot of pushback from 135 operators for the implementation of SMS. But most of the focus was the SMS complexity and they were worried also about the financial burden this would bring to the organization. So MBA Aviation, we are a young company and we've offered digital solutions to other facets of aviation over the years. So we thought why not take the experience that we have in SMS and come up with a digital solution for operators to have a comprehensive and affordable SMS solution that is both intuitive and easy to use and that is Java Seed sms.
[00:04:45] John Ramstead: So that's where it started. Now there's a lot of SMS platforms. So.
[00:04:48] Zahara Oubre: Right.
[00:04:48] John Ramstead: So what are some of the real differences of somebody who's using jumpseed SMS versus what else is other program, other programs on there? It's a required note.
[00:04:58] Zahara Oubre: That's a great question. So when we were looking at SMS and how to implement sms, we took a fresh look at it at how to implement SMS and we figured if we focus on safety data, all the operators, safety data and analysis of that data in one platform, it would be hugely beneficial for the operator to be able to, at any given point of time, be able to look at their current operational risk level and also make informed safety based decisions for their operations. So within Jumpseat SMS you'd be able to have your safety and hazard reporting data, risk change management data and audit data. And if you are actually part of implementing an FDM program, we can integrate through API and have your FDM data in Jumpseed SMS as well. So you'd be able to have a holistic view of your operational or safety risk.
[00:05:53] John Ramstead: And as an operator, how would I use this for both my air crew and ground crew to inform either better training, gaps in training, things like that?
[00:06:01] Zahara Oubre: Yes. So our analytics dashboard is able to give you absolute values of where your risk are, but also normalize data either by flight hours or flight cycles. And you can actually filter through that data and be like, oh, we've seen this occurrence rate in this destination the most. So you'd be able to identify where your negative safety trends are by phase of operation, type of occurrence, destination, you name it. And same thing, same thing for causal factors, because we've got in frameworks in there for occurrence, hazard and your causal factors. So you'd be able to look at negative safety trends in any of these areas, including the operational departments that you were talking about. So you're able to identify them and proactively reinforce either your procedures or your training or your systems, depending on where the deficiencies lie.
[00:06:48] John Ramstead: Yeah. So is your ideal client a 135 operator or have you taken this out kind of beyond that?
[00:06:54] Zahara Oubre: No, we have taken it out beyond that. So our Jumpseed SMS is scalable to the size and complexity of an operator? Yes, so, so that means 121, 135 and 91. But it is also scalable to your SMS maturity. By that I mean, so there's four levels of SMS maturity from like you have an SMS system present to your effective. So you could be at level one and use jump seed SMS and it'll help you. And you could also be at level four and use Jumpseed sms.
[00:07:24] John Ramstead: Now, are these industry standards level?
[00:07:26] Zahara Oubre: These are, yeah. So these are IKO levels, not your own Internet? No, they're not.
[00:07:30] John Ramstead: I'm just curious.
[00:07:30] Zahara Oubre: No, that's true. That's a fair question because I don't.
[00:07:32] John Ramstead: Currently run a safety program. So I'm Lear.
[00:07:34] Zahara Oubre: Yeah, we're hoping to help you subscribe to Jumpseed sms, but I need a couple airplanes first.
But yes. So there are four levels and so you could be at level one as you subscribe to us and we can actually take you to level four as you grow. So it depends on your commitment to SMS and the maturity level, but depending regardless of the scale, size and complexity, you'll be able to use Jumpseed sms.
[00:07:58] John Ramstead: Yeah. Now your customers, when they're, let's say they're at a level four, right? What, what, what are they? What's the benefit to their organization once, once they move up that scale to a level four.
[00:08:09] Zahara Oubre: So when you're at a level four, that means your, your SMS is effective, that means you're focusing on continuous improvement and that means you're actively looking at your spis and looking on improving them and actively looking at your hazards.
Safety performance indicators and improving them and actively looking at your hazards. So if you reach level four, it's not stagnant. You could, if you don't continue to improve your SMS or your operations, you could easily slip to a level three so it doesn't stop and it's never stagnant. So at level four, it could just further help you to improve using our analytics dashboard.
[00:08:47] John Ramstead: So question for it, is insurance looking at what level you are?
[00:08:50] Zahara Oubre: Yeah.
[00:08:51] John Ramstead: And do I get a break?
[00:08:52] Zahara Oubre: That is a really good question.
[00:08:54] John Ramstead: It's got to be a driver.
[00:08:55] Zahara Oubre: Yes. We've spoken to a lot of insurance providers here and even before Verticon and we've got solid feedback from them saying if the operator is able to show that they have a robust SMS and you could do that with our analytics dashboard, they are able to give a 2 to 5% of reduction in premium. So that is a monetary benefit in addition to the compliance benefits and a safety performance benefit.
[00:09:22] John Ramstead: I think you guys should lobby for a 10% discount at level four. Just saying.
[00:09:28] Zahara Oubre: So like we tried with 2 to 5%, but yes, we'll work on it.
[00:09:32] John Ramstead: All right now when you're approaching a customer, they might have sms. What are some of the questions they might have to maybe change or implement? Maybe something that's different, more effective?
[00:09:43] Zahara Oubre: Yeah, so that's a fair question. When we launched Jumpseed sms, we didn't have integrations like we do now, but we had a lot of questions with regards to FDM integration, with regards to the ASAP reporting program. And as I said earlier, we are focused on helping the operator implement SMS effectively and seamlessly. So since then we've worked with FDM providers to include API integration. We work with third party facilitators for the ASAP program and we've implemented both of them. So yeah, we're open to feedback anything that helps the operator implement sms.
[00:10:17] John Ramstead: Well, that's awesome. Well, I am a huge fan of safety. Safety is foundational. It's amazing. You know, we've interviewed from Leonardo and Robinson and even Fabi over at Loft Dynamics, who's doing simulators. And you know what I love? It's just an aviation safety is just a foundational piece of our culture, and it should be both building, certifying, flying, and operating an aircraft. So love the work that you're doing, and it's been great to meet you and your team. And your co worker here actually knows one of my favorite Navy guys from 30 years ago. So that was kind of a neat blast from the past. So, anyway, Zara, thank you for being on the podcast. And, yeah, just keep knocking them alive out there as you're implementing everything.
[00:11:00] Zahara Oubre: Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.
[00:11:02] John Ramstead: Yeah, my pleasure.
