Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I thought the industries I served before were very conservative. As I mentioned in the beginning of our discussion, as I joined aviation, I understood the paradox. Right. It's a very high tech industry, but at the same time, it's extremely conservative.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Welcome to Hangar X Studios, where former fighter pilot and host John Ramstead takes us on a journey across aerospace as it enters an historic period of innovation and transformation.
Our guests include aviation experts, pilots, financiers, military leaders, and innovators of all types.
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[00:00:49] Speaker C: All right. If you are not here, you are missing it. Hangar X is at the forefront of aviation intelligence because this is where disruptors and innovators and decision makers are revealing what's happening before the rest of the world catches on. And today, speaking of innovators, we have on Daniel Mocha Delover. Did I pronounce that right?
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that was great.
[00:01:14] Speaker C: Very good.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Congrats.
[00:01:16] Speaker C: CEO and president of Embraerx. And you know what, you have a really fascinating business life before you got into aerospace and you were just known for your grasp of technology and innovation. You got your original degree in chemical engineering. And you know, before, there's a lot of things that Embraer and Embraerx are doing. I'd really like to hear though, because they brought you into Embraerx because of, I believe, Daniel, getting to know you. It's about a way of thinking, it's about a point of view, it's about a way of seeing and doing things differently. And I'd love to hear about what was that transition like for you from what you've been doing into an aerospace company.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, first of all, it's a pleasure to be joining the discussion and to contribute with some of my own experience and insights and talk about the fascinating story of Embraer, Embraer X and eve. Air mobility, as you can imagine, is one thing that I love to do.
It has been such a fantastic journey for me with aviation. But you're right, as you said, I started my career in a very different industry.
I spent the first 15 years of my career with energy, oil and gas, petrochemical. Those are fields that I would say are closer to my academic background in chemical engineering.
And I use it to work very much with what we would call the heavy industries. Right? Heavy equipment, massive scale, massive operations.
But those are all industries where the stakes are so high. Right. Any new project is a multi billion project. Big capex investments involved that it drove, I would say all of those industries towards the more conservative side of the spectrum. All the decision making in those big investments were always very, you know, thought of and discussed and to be honest, very conservative. And the company I used to work with was, you know, a startup that eventually got acquired by a big German multinational, Siemens.
That was a great opportunity for us who were still young in our career, myself and my colleagues. Our company was founded and headquartered in Brazil. But as we became a member of the Siemens global family, of course we started to have exposure and access to international customers, international markets.
But we were, you know, always kind of the, the different culture inside of a very big industrial company with very strong, robust processes. We were more on the creative side, trying to challenge the status quo, coming up with new ideas, new ways of doing things, trying to be, you know, entrepreneurs in each and every project that we would undertake.
And I got to live this, this experience firsthand, which was kind of interesting, was a combination, but at the same time a clash of very different work cultures.
And as I became eventually the CEO of that company that was acquired, that really placed me at the convergence of those two different cultures.
And I tried my best to leverage both sides, you know, to understand the strengths and of course, the weaknesses and trying to get to best of both worlds, which is not easy to do right. Forces of nature kind of push you to end up with the worst of both worlds. And you have to put a lot of thinking and energy and creativity to come up with with Best of both worlds. But it was a fantastic journey for me. Lots and lots of learning as a young executive back then. And I think, you know, that journey ended up leading me to, to receiving an invite from Embraer, which was totally out of the blue, no pun intended, because Embraer, you know, the company color is blue.
But that was a call I was definitely not expecting to receive.
I had pretty much no experience with aviation industry by the time I was invited to join. So I was really puzzled. Right.
[00:06:13] Speaker C: Why would you invited to join in on Embraer X or Embraer?
[00:06:19] Speaker A: It was a precursor of Embraerx.
The invitation was to start a new venture inside of Embraer, the mother company. Back then it was called Embraer Systems.
And when the business plan was explained to me, I kind of got to understand why they would be calling on an outsider of the industry to join. The idea back then was to deploy and customize some of the aerospace and defense technologies that Embraer back then already mastered, but bring those technologies and know how to create solutions for different industries, to create new Revenue streams. And some of the industries that were targeted back then were exactly the ones I had more experience with like oil and gas or mining or big scale operations. So they wanted someone who knew the business to come on board and help create that new venture inside of Embraer. And that was part back then of a strong diversification strategy to try to create a counter cyclic type of effect.
As aviation is very well known for having ups and down cycles. Embraer Air Board was trying to target some business, some revenue streams that could counterbalance those cycles. And I thought the entire idea was so bold, so unusual that I thought, oh my God, this is not the kind of, you know, risk appetite I would expect from a well established, you know, very big corporation like Embraer was already. Embraer probably was close to complete 50 years of history when I joined it and you know, was a highly reputable company, very respected, and I was pretty much impressed with how far the company was willing to go when it came to innovation and new business exploration. So I really fell in love with the, the challenge, the invitation, and I joined it. And that was, you know, the defining.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: And how long ago was that, Daniel?
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Pardon me?
[00:08:44] Speaker C: How long ago was that?
[00:08:45] Speaker A: This was 12 years ago. Precisely 12 years ago. I'm celebrating my 12th anniversary.
[00:08:51] Speaker C: Well, happy anniversary and share with everybody. I think everybody's familiar with Embraer. I mean I've flown the Phenom 100 and a lot of this is definitely flown on your regional jets. That's right. But define what Embraer X is today.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Right. So as I joined Embraer Air, the company was already very strong in the business areas of commercial aviation executive jets. You mentioned the Phenols, right?
We have the honor to have the best selling aircraft in the executive jet market now for 13 years in a row, the phenol 300. So that's part of our portfolio in executive jets. We have a military division, the defense and security area of Embraer, where we develop and manufacture amazing transport and aircraft like the KC390 Millennium.
So those areas, defense, executive jets, commercial, were already very strong for Embraer. And I would say even though we were not the largest player in each one of those fields. But we like it to think of Embraer as, as, you know, the more nimble, more agile competitor in each one of those markets and, and kind of a benchmark when it comes to product development. And, and no other company has ever introduced as many new types to the market as Embraer did in the recent 20 years. I think the count is about 20 types certified in the last 20 years. That's unheard of in, in aviation. So it's a very.
[00:10:31] Speaker C: Embraer has certified 20 different aircraft types of aircraft in the last 20 different.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Aircraft types in the last 20 years. That, that's I think a world record for, for aviation. And it really kept our engineering talents, you know, to, to get mature and perfecting and improving one program after the other and brought Embraer to where we are today, where still we believe we have a clear advantage in terms of how competitive, how fast we can be in our development cycles.
Everything that creates this advantage was already there back when we decided to launch Embraerx. And I think the very fact that Embraerx was contemplated and launched speaks volumes to how humble Embryer is. Because we were looking around us and we said, okay, we may be doing a good job in the aviation industry, but maybe we are not doing enough of a good job if we broaden our spectrum and we look at what's happening at other industries.
And back then Silicon Valley was capturing a lot of our attention in that time. How, you know, new competitors, new companies were coming to the game, were coming to very well established industries and challenging the status quo with amazing success, shaking up the pillars of space industry, automotive industry. We also saw a convergence of some emerging technologies like electrification and autonomy, changing the rules of the game and the rules of competition in those markets. Eventually we thought, okay, maybe we have been used in the last 50 years of our company history to a very high entrance barrier in aviation which makes aviation typically a very small club. Very few companies that, that can, you know, be up to the challenge. The bar is really very, very high. But for how long? That was the question we asked ourselves. For how long will, will this dynamic endure?
And, and maybe, maybe sooner than we expect. There will be newcomers, there will be new ideas coming to our industry and challenging the way we do business.
And we don't know, we don't have a crystal ball, so we don't know if this is going to happen or not. But we better be part of the game, right? We better be part of the team that is at least exploring and trying to reinvent aviation and test those radical new concepts and also test radical new way of doing things. So that's when we came to the decision to launch Embraer X. It was thought of as representing the company ambidexterity. Right? So we were trying to do again, best of both worlds, keep up with all the efficiency and focus on results in the core business, but giving ourselves an extra degree of freedom to explore totally new markets, totally new concepts and learn in that experimentation. So we wanted to be part of this new age of aviation that apparently was being born about that time.
[00:14:15] Speaker C: Yeah, let me. Can I ask you some questions around that?
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Oh yeah, please.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: Because I think you've been in the center of a number of very strategic decisions that Embraerx has made. So, you know, you went way down the road and looked at a partnership with Boeing. Didn't happen, but I know there was a lot of thought there.
You looked into evtols and you've made. You're working very closely with Eve Mobility. I'd like to hear more about that. You also went the SMAC route when you were looking at Zanite and Directional Aviation. Before we dig into some of the details, could you share, maybe even almost, what is the philosophy behind some of these? You know, how you guys are thinking strategically?
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Sure, sure. So let's again go back to the time about the time when Embryo X was launched. Right. 2017.
Because I think was a very important turning point in Embraer's 50 plus year history.
As I said, we were doing a very good job in terms of developing new products. We had very up to date portfolio of products in all of the segments where we were playing.
But the fact is Embraer was on a highly competitive market. Each of the markets that I mentioned, we have very high respect for our strong competitors in all of them. So it was a constant exercise of thinking about our strategy and try to identify our opportunities to grow. How can we unlock, you know, all the value that the company can bring to markets with a high chance, a high probability of success in each one of those markets? And we were, you know, handling different considerations, particularly in commercial aviation.
You will recall that few years earlier, Bombardier had sold their entire commercial aviation division to, to Airbus, right. For either €1 or one Canadian dollar. I do not recall.
But I mean, all of a sudden our direct competitor was no more in commercial aviation. And then we started to face Airbus, which is a company we have very high respect for, but they also have a massive scale globally. And that was the time when it seemed to be logical that Embraer and Boeing would somehow join forces in commercial aviation and combine a portfolio that would be, you know, a strong competitor to the Airbus offerings. So that was the strategic thinking that in one of our business units led to a discussion, a more strategic discussion about some kind of business combination with Boeing.
Eventually, despite of all the effort, we put on structuring that deal. It ended up not happening.
We had the pandemic hitting the industry in 2020.
Of course, Boeing had some other challenges that I think everybody is today very familiar with.
So they ended up pulling the plug on that deal. Embraer was pretty much ready to go, but Boeing took the decision to call off the deal.
And when that happened, I would say some of the other strategic decisions that we had been working on proven to be very critical for the survival of the company. For example, innovation and EmbraerX.
Those investments were never part of the Boeing deal. They were kind of a bet in the long term, in the future of the company in opening up new markets.
So I think.
[00:18:35] Speaker C: What were some of the bets that you were making, Daniel?
[00:18:38] Speaker A: So exactly. In the convergence of electrification and autonomy, we identified a new potential market, an emerging market that is called urban air mobility, which would be the dream of, you know, bringing flying taxis to the big metropolis of the world and create, honestly, a new mode of transportation, something that is not yet there.
It was really a dream. Today we feel much closer to bringing that dream to reality. But that was about making aviation accessible to billions and billions of potential passengers in the world for very short flights inside the cities, as I mentioned. So to give people an alternative to avoid maybe 1 hour, 2 hours in cities like Sao Paulo, Los Angeles, we can be easily talking three hours of traffic jam. You could replace it by a very pleasant 10 minute, 15 minute flight.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: Yeah. A good friend of mine from LA, Daniel, nobody ever talks about how far something is like it's three miles, 10 miles, 12. It's like, no, that is an hour drive, that's three hours. Unless you leave right now, it'll be two. But yeah, everything's about time when you're driving in these really congested urban areas.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: Indeed, indeed. And there are some cities in the world that really face very difficult challenges.
And to create this new alternative started to be something that we believed could be feasible if we could have a fully battery powered vehicle, very efficient, very silent, not to disturb, you know, the city, very safe, much higher level of safety than, for example, a helicopter. Something that could be designed for, you know, passenger transportation that could, you know, become a game changer, that could unlock a huge market potential.
We're talking, as I said, billions of potential passengers per year. Thousands and thousands of those aircraft flying on top of the big crowded metropolis of the world.
That was, I believe, the first market that caught our attention as we launched at Embryx. It was a great example of why Embry X was created because even though was a very high potential, there was of course, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of risk regulations were not there yet. We are now more advanced, but still there is work to be done when it comes to regulation. There is infrastructure that will be needed. So there were many Unknowns back in 2017, 2018, but that was precisely the type of opportunity that Embryox was created to pursue. It would not make the priority list for any of our well established core business units, but it was exactly what a company like EmbryX was created to explore. We did not have the answer will it be interesting to pursue or not? But it was certainly interesting to evaluate. So we started to evaluate. We launched a project to evaluate that market. We eventually joined a challenge that was back then launched by Uber Technologies, the Uber Elevate initiative that, you know, attracted the attention of many interesting companies, incumbents, startups, to, to analyze that challenge and come up with solutions. And we kept, you know, getting more excited about it as every year would pass, we would gather more information, more maturity, and we kept getting more excited until we got to the point where it became clear to me as CEO of Embryx, that that project was no longer a project. It was ready to become a company and it had clearly outgrown embryx. Right. That's very important to understand. And I always make the analogy because I have two daughters myself. I like to call Eve Air Mobility my third daughter. It was the time when your daughter needs to leave home and then you have to recognize, oh my, it's time. It's hard, but it's time. And that was the time when the EVTOL program was clearly at a crossroads. It would require, you know, significant more investment, it would require collaboration and partnership in the ecosystem, and it would be probably not feasible to continue inside of Embraer, right, inside of Embraer X.
So we assumed that the Embraer X mission as an incubator and accelerator had been fulfilled and we went outside to look for external investors and partners. So we spun off the company. That's when Eve Air Mobility was created. This was 2020, the height of the pandemic.
So as I mentioned, that was a strategic choice that we do not regret. Right. As the company was going through the deepest crisis in the history of aviation, we were bold enough to launch a very ambitious initiative like spinning off a company, an evtol company, to pursue a market that is still emerging, is still being developed.
But that was a, wow, what a journey.
[00:24:33] Speaker C: But you know what? That entire market segment, it's just a matter of time.
It's when, not if.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Exactly. That's how I like to think about it. It's a matter of when.
And I also like to mention when people ask me, hey, Daniel, you are working with disruptive innovation and aren't you afraid that someday there's gonna be a Tesla in aviation that will challenge you? And I say the only reason I'm not afraid is because I think this company already exists and it's called Eve Air Mobility.
Fortunately, we are the largest shareholder on that company. Now what stage was, you know, it was a very. We did that in 2020, but of course we could not pull that off on our own. One of the reasons to spin off was exactly to attract partners who would be willing to, you know, take the risk together with us, share the risks and share the results and understanding the. The ambition of the project, would be excited to write the next chapter of. Of aviation. And I think one of those partners for sure was, was the main partner in that journey ended up being, you know, the, the, the Zanite Special purpose acquisition company. The spec that was launched by, mainly by Ken Richie, the, the directional aviation chairman. He's a longtime aviation executive and you know, extremely successful businessman, very passionate about aviation.
In one of his controlled companies, FlexJets, he was already, you know, a very strategic customer of Embraer executive jets. Great relationship.
[00:26:32] Speaker C: Yeah, they just placed a large order.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: They just placed. Yeah, the largest ever. Largest ever order for $7 billion worth of Embraer aircraft. That was just amazing. But I mean it speaks to the level of trust that we have established, you know, and, and it's a very, very relevant partnership for us in the industry. But they knew Ken and his team, right, the fantastic team of executives he assembled in that spec. They knew what Embraer was capable of. They knew it's a company they could trust. If we were to put our skin in the game as we were really doing.
Besides, I think it differentiates the SPAC very much from the hype that was out in the market.
People who follow financial markets, they will recall 2020, 2019 were, you know, the height of the SPAC frenzy.
[00:27:31] Speaker C: There was a lot of funded a lot of companies and technology in this.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: Advanced air mobility space. Sure did.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: Right. So many deals were happening, you know, in, in many, many industries. But what we found very unique about the value proposition that Ken and his team brought to us was the fact that his spec was not another blank check company. He was, you know, committed to do something related to aviation, to the future. Of air mobility. This is his passion. This is his entire, you know, life and professional career. He's a pilot himself as well, and he really wanted to create a legacy. You know, he doesn't need to prove anything else after all the success he has had, but he was willing to help write this next chapter in the history of aviation. And he was looking for the right partner to invest on he due diligence. Said, I think every big name, every big company that was out there in the market and came to the conclusion his best bet would be together with us. So we were, of course, very honored and decided to take his offer.
And that led to an IPO of Ever Mobility two years later in 2022, which was, you know, kind of a defining moment of my personal career, because I never thought in my wildest dreams that one day I would be ringing the bell of New York Stock Exchange in Wall Street.
[00:29:09] Speaker C: Oh, what? You know what? I gotta ask. What was. What was that like? That must be really neat.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: That was, you know, hard to describe, man. That's hard to describe. We woke up early in the morning. We walked from our hotel to the historical New York Exchange building in Wall Street. When we arrived, we found the building all covered with the flags of the USA and Brazil and the logo of Eve Air Mobility, the company that, you know, was nothing but a dream few years before and now was hitting the markets to start negotiating its shares. The. The. The feeling was unbelievable. The enthusiasm, you know, the sense of pride.
But at the same time, it was humbling because we knew that was just going to be, you know, another step, another milestone in a long and challenging journey. But it was a big day of celebration. We were all so proud, so proud to take in the company, have taken the company to the ipo. That was also the day I considered that my daughter left home because I was chairman of the board of Eve until the IPO day. The very next day, I handed over, I stepped down, and my very good friend and, you know, aviation legend Luis Carlos Afonso, who is the mastermind behind, you know, pretty much all the Embraer aircraft programs of the last 15 years, Luis took over as chairman, and the CEO of Embraer challenged me. Okay, Daniel, now you have to work on the next Eve Air Mobility.
[00:30:56] Speaker C: Well, I'd love to hear what's next, but first of all, what stage is Eve at now? And where do you think their entry into service will be? You know, post certification?
[00:31:07] Speaker A: That's a great, great point. We are working extremely hard, as you can imagine. We have a Target to certify and enter into service by 2027.
It's pretty much the same timeline that we've been working with ever since we launched it. So we always told the market that we were not rushing to be the first one to be the first to launch. There were other companies that started their work before us and that we have high respect for that. We are truly hopeful will make it as well. Right. We need a healthy market with at least, you know, a couple or handful of competitors there to justify all the infrastructure investments that will be needed, all the effort that it will take. So again, we follow closely on some of the other companies that are working on their EVTOL programs. We know they're making good progress. In our case, we never set the target to be first to certify, but we wanted to make sure it would be a very solid, let's say, journey towards the certification. So we take very, very careful decisions in each and every trade off of our development to make sure we are coming up with a solution that is going to be efficient, that's going to be safe, that's going to be certifiable, maintainable. So I think one of the greatest advantages of EVE is the ability to drink from the Embraer experience. As a main player in regional aviation. It is our bread and butter, you know, to design aircraft that has to endure a very, very intense level of usage. And I mean aircraft that need to take off and land sometimes 10, 11, 12 times the same day. The same day. We have, you know, 12 cycles.
[00:33:16] Speaker C: Well, that's a lot more wear and tear than, you know, if I owned a Phenom 100 for personal use. Very, very different, very different design.
[00:33:24] Speaker A: It is a different design, but it's something that companies like Flexjet or NetJets, they like it, right, because they, they end up working today as a big fleet operator. So they certainly value a lot that, you know, reliability and durability. Durability and, and also the, the, the, the very high, the quality of the design, the robustness of the design that allows for a quick turnaround and, and very few and well planned downtime. So the aircraft is available for most of the time. This is going to be critical for the evtol and, and we've been bringing all of that experience the same way we did with executive jets. We are doing the same with the EVTOL because we know for that business plan to work is going to be high usage. The plane will have to take off and land very, very often, very frequent. We have to Minimize the downtime. So it's not just about making the certification bar, which is already an extremely tough challenge, but it's also about how to bring to market a vehicle that is highly efficient to support the success of the operators.
[00:34:43] Speaker C: Well, yeah, and manufacturing, which Embraer has deep experience in, is a key part of that quality and durability long term and the maintainability. And how has your experience in manufacturing benefited what Eve's doing from their design through certification process?
[00:35:03] Speaker A: Tremendous. That's tremendous. And one of the reasons I think I fell in love with aviation industry is the precision is how precise all the systems need to be. So when we are developing a new product, we are not only developing the product itself, but we are developing the production system. It needs to be born together.
So at Embraer, we have developed what I like to think of as our secret sauce, which is our integrated development process. The integrated development means at the same time we're thinking about what the aircraft will look like. We are already thinking about how will it be manufactured, assembled and how will it be maintained. All of those considerations need to be taken into account simultaneously and as early as possible. So that's one of the reasons I believe Embraer has been so successful in our core business. And we are of course bringing that experience and that know how to the way we are developing the, the evtol. So the, the Embraer engineering team, manufacturing engineering team, they are all deeply involved in the development of the evtol. And as the EVTOL is being born, the, the production system, the assembly line, it's all being born at the same time to drive for, for the maximum efficiency. Having said that, I have to add again, we need to be humble. We're talking about a totally new, you know, technology in this case and a.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: Totally new category of aircraft from. That's right, that's right. Air mobility, everything in this whole powered lift category that the FAA is now, you know, focused on. Yeah, it is both piloted and autonomous.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: It is a very different animal. The number of units that we'll have to assemble per year is certainly much, much higher than anything we have ever produced.
So we are learning a lot. I mean, we're making good use of our experience, but we keep our minds open. And we've been talking a lot to, you know, automotive companies as partners, as advisors, trying to find the right trade offs, the right sweet spots in between, how aviation manufacturing operates, how automotive manufacturing operates. The EVTOL sits somewhere in the middle and we are trying to, as I say, keep our minds Open to new solutions, new processes that will help us be highly efficient in that manufacturing operation as well.
[00:37:52] Speaker C: So something I heard in there, you said this whole philosophy, it's the design, the production and the maintenance, these aren't separate phases, these are done concurrently. And do you think that's part of why you certified 20 aircraft in 20 years?
[00:38:08] Speaker A: It is part of the explanation why we were capable to do that and not bankrupt the company or fail to meet our customers requirements. We do give a lot of credit to this method that we call our integrated process product. Pardon me, Integrated product development methodology.
It's been, you know, the product of many hard lessons that we've been learning throughout our journey. And we learned that those considerations, the sooner we can bring them to the table, the sooner we can take them into account in our design decisions, the better. So we are always looking for what we call the global optimal solution. It's not enough to have a nice solution that will work for the product, but will give us a big headache in manufacturing, or may work for manufacturing, but we'll give our customers a big headache when it comes to maintenance. So we try to bring those tough discussions, you know, to happen early in the development cycle and simultaneously so those trade offs are evaluated. And when we get to the phase where we start testing the product, maybe modeling, simulation or the ground testing in the Iron Birds or the flight testing, it's already much more, more mature than you would expect from a new product. I think this, this is something that Embraer has been really excelling at. We are very proud of that. We, we remember, you know, out of those 20 types we certified, if we go back in time to what was happening 20 years ago, the truth is we suffered a lot with, with maturity issues that would arise as we were beginning to test. And when you're testing, it's already pretty painful and expensive to go back and fix things that you end up finding out are not okay or when you enter into service and you try to give the best support to your customers, it's very hard. If only by then you realize you made a bad choice in your development.
So all of those hard lessons, I think we were learning from them and incorporating all of them to have today what we consider to be a very robust integrated product development system. We call it a social technical system. It's not just the technology, the technical part, but it's also about how people negotiate the trade offs, how people interact with each other, how we bring, you know, the supply, the procurement expert together with the manufacturing expert, the maintenance expert. The aeronautics expert structure, they all have to come to, to, you know, a common understanding and, and hopefully to, to a good solution that typically will not make any one of them very happy individually.
[00:41:25] Speaker C: That's right. You got to find the trade offs in the middle. And I love that design philosophy.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: We have to compromise. Yes. That's the best that we can do.
[00:41:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that design philosophy of social technical system.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:41:37] Speaker C: So as we kind of wrap up here, Daniel and I really appreciate your time. This is great. We're going to have you back on. There's other questions I'd love to ask you about some of the future and technologies and maybe even hybrid propulsion to expand the envelopes. But just as we wrap up, what just final thoughts do you have for people listening to this all over the world?
[00:41:58] Speaker A: Well, if I can offer some, you know, food for thought or takeaways, I would say I thought the industries I served before were very conservative. As I mentioned in the beginning of our discussion as I joined aviation, I understood the paradox. Right. It's a very high tech industry, but at the same time it's extremely conservative and for an excellent reason. We do not negotiate on safety. Safety always comes first.
And I always find intriguing when I hear people complaining, oh, the certification process, it's too lengthy, it's too long, it's too complex. Yeah, but that's what guarantees that air mobility. Right. That air transportation is the safest means of transportation in the world for decades and decades and decades. So that's, you know, certification is there for a reason. The entire system has to work in a very strong harmony.
So that's, you know, it's a given, it's not going away. No matter what the future holds and what new technologies will emerge. This is a strong belief of ours. Safety will remain to be first to provide the safest means of transportation will never be negotiable. And we'll have to find ways to make innovation thrive in that scenario. We need to make the paradox work. So it's very conservative when we're talking safety, but we need to keep an open mind to new technologies and new way of doing things that can comply with the safe standards but still bring new value to the market and challenge the status quo. So this combination is a powerful one. It is not easy to do, but I believe is the way to go. And if even an industry as aviation can manage to do it, you know, I believe every company everywhere is also able to do it if it is, you know, motivated to embrace the challenge. So again, the combination of focus on your short term, your efficiency, your strong processes. But keep your mind open to innovation, to doing things differently and trying to find the right compromises and trade offs so that we can keep building better for the future.
[00:44:37] Speaker C: Yep. Daniel, thank you so much. Love that. And everybody listening, thank you for being part of Hangar X. Like I shared before, this is where new things are revealed. This is at the cutting edge of aviation intelligence. And if you like this, please subscribe to our YouTube channel below. If you're on audio, subscribe there. And thank you for being part of this and we will talk to you next week.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: It.
